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Was the Cardcaptors dub better than what people thought?


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NJ_



Joined: 31 Oct 2009
Posts: 3022
Location: Wallington, NJ
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2023 1:04 am Reply with quote
Alan45 wrote:
I can't answer for the dub as I didn't hear much of it. However, the main problem that people had with Cardcaptors was that they pretty much butchered the show to produce it.

Reportedly, Nelvana heavily edited the show for its UK, Canada and Australia release. The edits were to remove "objectionable content" and strictly Japanese references. WB Kids took this edited version and tried to make it a show around Syaorun Li as the hero (to appeal to boys). They omitted any episodes that revolved around Sakura alone which is why it is so much shorter. The episodes that were retained were edited to have the same effect.

When NISA released the show, there would have been no point in trying to get the Nelvana dub since it would not have matched the original animation.


There's actually more to this since apparently CLAMP doesn't want that dub released anymore.

From Justin Sevakis who worked on the Blu-ray Discs for both NIS America (TV) & Discotek (movies).

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?p=17822819#post17822819

jsevakis wrote:
Yuukaa_Sa wrote:
I wish Diskotek would releases Cardcaptors in the Nelvana dub cause it's my favorite. Yes i know it has cuts and changes but I don't care.

I'm hopeful since they have been releasing shows like Beyblad & Medabots.

Cause the new english dubs is just horrible and kills the series for me. I don't like the Japanese version either.


The old CardCaptors dub is dead forever. Clamp hates it, so it gone.

This is true of most shows from the 90s from prominent manga artists that were heavily adapted in the West. They usually weren't consulted at all and should've been, and are now VERY salty about it.


https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?p=18064691#post18064691

jsevakis wrote:
BigOnAnime wrote:
Out of curiosity, why are they still okay with the dub of the first movie still being around? If you turn the subs on while watching the dub, the lines rarely match.


Movies work differently. The legal frameworks make it so the producers need to consult a lot less with the original creators. But generally, edits are a much bigger sore spot than a modified dub.


As crazy as it sounds, it does explain what happened on Madman's end since they got the series back for Australia before the US did and while they were not known for releasing subtitled-only anime as often, they did for the show's re-releases despite having released that dub in the past while the movies had their uncut dubs kept.

TheFanCon wrote:
Then what was even the point of Funimation doing the kickstarter to make their own dub of the show?


TheFanCon wrote:
getchman wrote:
a better, updated dub and apparently adding back a few scenes that were previously edited out

So that means even the uncut dub with Ocean actors wasn't good enough?
Or was there even such a thing in the first place?


The old Escaflowne dub is uncut but it's based off the Japanese TV broadcast version.

When the show was in production in Japan, 6 of the first 7 episodes had too much content for a 30 minute TV slot so some scenes were cut for broadcast but they were inserted back for the Japanese home video releases (not just HD like Funimation claimed). When Bandai had the show, Sunrise gave them the TV broadcast versions so that's what was used for Ocean's dub and what was released on video here a bunch of times.

The reason Funimation redubbed it was for those extra scenes which weren't very long in length (I believe they were around 7 minutes long combined) so it was pretty extreme to redub the whole thing, including the movie, and do it in-house with what I like to call a Fullmetal Alchemist cast reunion, it was even more extreme to do that Kickstarter in the first place with the original plan of keeping the old dub exclusive to the KickStarter edition which thankfully they did change to putting it on all editions instead.
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Alan45
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Joined: 25 Aug 2010
Posts: 9858
Location: Virginia
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2023 7:04 am Reply with quote
@NJ_

I was wondering how Nelvana got permission to do the cuts. Apparently they just didn't ask.
At this point I guess the only way to access the Cardcaptors dub would be to go on E-bay or similar sites and track down what ever was released on DVD.
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Cardcaptor Takato



Joined: 27 Jan 2018
Posts: 4869
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2023 8:31 pm Reply with quote
Most anime dubs back then were made without any involvement from the Japanese studios hence Kawamori calling Robotech a "bootleg" and 4Kids lost the rights to Mew Mew Power when the mangaka got wind of the alterations. Back in those days there was little communications between NA dubbing studios and the Japanese licensors.
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TheFanCon



Joined: 14 Jun 2023
Posts: 48
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2023 10:42 pm Reply with quote
NJ_ wrote:
There's actually more to this since apparently CLAMP doesn't want that dub released anymore.

Cardcaptor Takato wrote:
hence Kawamori calling Robotech a "bootleg" and 4Kids lost the rights to Mew Mew Power when the mangaka got wind of the alterations.

Man, if only Toriyama was like this too. I love reading about how these other creators are trashing all these invalid alternate versions of their works.

The CCS thread in particular is both funny and sad at the same time. If the original media is "not for you", then find something else that is. Simple as that.
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GNPixie



Joined: 25 Jul 2018
Posts: 303
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2023 6:47 pm Reply with quote
Alan45 wrote:
Reportedly, Nelvana heavily edited the show for its UK, Canada and Australia release. The edits were to remove "objectionable content" and strictly Japanese references. WB Kids took this edited version and tried to make it a show around Syaorun Li as the hero (to appeal to boys). They omitted any episodes that revolved around Sakura alone which is why it is so much shorter. The episodes that were retained were edited to have the same effect.

Canuck here. This is wrong. The Canadian release was not edited nearly as much as what the US got. In fact, I'd say it's almost like the predecessor of what happened with Canada's YTV airing of Gundam SEED and Cartoon Network's airing of it where the former aired earlier and got away completely uncut versus the latter which aired latter in the night and still censored a ton of content. Google Gundam Seed Cartooon Network and it should be one of the very first images in Image Search or just add laser guns to it and it should be one of the results.

1) Canada's airing of the show, outside of some obvious name changes like Kinimoto to Avalon and whatever they did to Li's name (its not even romanization!) , was relatively uncut outside of editing out Japanese text and toning down Tomoyo's crush on Sakura and the latter's crush on Yukito, at least enough to get past the the Canadian Broadcast Standards Council at the time, since both are absolutely still there if you know what to look for.

2) There was no massive editing to make Li look like the main character. The Canadian airing kept Sakura as the lead. In fact, Canada aired everything in their proper order, including the movies as well versus what happened with the US airings

It was an incredibly successful run on Teletoon to the point where they started airing right before their prime movie block on weekends.

TheFanCon wrote:
So that means even the uncut dub with Ocean actors wasn't good enough? Or was there even such a thing in the first place?

It was mostly Funimation being lazy and not reaching out at all to the original cast probably (Same thing that happened with the Gundam cast as of recently, for stuff that has returning cast members. I know neither McNeil or Swaile were approached about doing the Unicorn cameos from con appearances when that was still going and you could probably imagine nobody was approached about the Seed redub, Origin or Hathaway by that fact)

So there was the Fox Kids airing of Escaflowne and and there was the YTV airing in Canada. The Fox Kids airing had the same problem of the Cardcaptor's dub where they tried to make Van the lead; mostly in terms of rearranging the episodes and what not so things were already established in the first episode. Canada's airing, outside of blood and what not, did everything in order and I believe actually aired the movie at one point during 3 Hairy Thumbs Up (the Saturday Action-centric Movie block for a while on YTV)

Bandai released the full series uncut on DVD with the Fox Kids/YTV dub cast for both the series and movie but the problem was they were given the broadcast masters, and not the home video masters which had the additional scenes. The whole story of Escaflowne's additional scenes is a really bizarre story that Funimation tried to make a bigger deal than they were since the scenes in total don't even equal to 8 minutes.

And I honestly disagree with it being a "better" dub too personally but that's comparing who they cast as certain characters with both the original dub and the JP version. I even had issues with it as they were announcing the cast itself; not even considering the one I had the biggest issue with turned out a sex pest and doesn't even fit the character.
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TheFanCon



Joined: 14 Jun 2023
Posts: 48
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2023 12:22 am Reply with quote
GNPixie wrote:
It was mostly Funimation being lazy... that Funimation tried to make a bigger deal than they were since the scenes in total don't even equal to 8 minutes.

And I honestly disagree with it being a "better" dub too personally but that's comparing who they cast as certain characters with both the original dub and the JP version. I even had issues with it as they were announcing the cast itself; not even considering the one I had the biggest issue with turned out a sex pest and doesn't even fit the character.

Why am I not surprised that the nepotism company is like this? Amateurs till the end.
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GNPixie



Joined: 25 Jul 2018
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2023 2:16 am Reply with quote
Given what happened a couple years later (Kirby Morrow's passing) and how much of the cast had moved on? I dunno if I'd call it nepotism in this case.

They definitely made a bigger deal out of the additional footage than they should have though, given it doesn't add much at all outside of some additional fluff here and there (Like I said, it's not even a full 8 minutes) and how they were originally going to make the release of the original dub Kickstarter-exclusive (which thank god they backed down from) I can't recall who the other party was, I think it might've been Anime Limited, had the idea of just having the additional scenes as bonus stuff but they ultimately decided to just follow Funi in that regard.
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mgree0032



Joined: 27 Jun 2022
Posts: 255
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2023 3:28 am Reply with quote
@GNPixie

I think that why Canada was willing to produce an uncut version of the shows rather than the US would.
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TheFanCon



Joined: 14 Jun 2023
Posts: 48
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2023 5:14 pm Reply with quote
GNPixie wrote:
I dunno if I'd call it nepotism in this case.

Oh, no, that was in reference to their origins and how they even made it this far to begin with (all thanks to a certain lightning-in-a-bottle license).

Quote:
They definitely made a bigger deal out of the additional footage than they should have though, given it doesn't add much at all outside of some additional fluff here and there (Like I said, it's not even a full 8 minutes) and how they were originally going to make the release of the original dub Kickstarter-exclusive (which thank god they backed down from)

Which also leads directly to these types of amateur-tier practices.
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NJ_



Joined: 31 Oct 2009
Posts: 3022
Location: Wallington, NJ
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2023 9:19 am Reply with quote
GNPixie wrote:
I can't recall who the other party was, I think it might've been Anime Limited, had the idea of just having the additional scenes as bonus stuff but they ultimately decided to just follow Funi in that regard.

It was Anime Limited but they hired Justin for it so it was basically the same quality you see on Discotek releases and IIRC from old comparisons, they did a better job than Funi did in the video department, same goes for Outlaw Star.
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Cardcaptor Takato



Joined: 27 Jan 2018
Posts: 4869
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2023 12:16 am Reply with quote
GNPixie wrote:
1) Canada's airing of the show, outside of some obvious name changes like Kinimoto to Avalon and whatever they did to Li's name (its not even romanization!) , was relatively uncut outside of editing out Japanese text and toning down Tomoyo's crush on Sakura and the latter's crush on Yukito, at least enough to get past the the Canadian Broadcast Standards Council at the time, since both are absolutely still there if you know what to look for.

2) There was no massive editing to make Li look like the main character. The Canadian airing kept Sakura as the lead. In fact, Canada aired everything in their proper order, including the movies as well versus what happened with the US airings

I've seen all the Canadian episodes through various means and while it's less edited than the Kid's WB broadcast it still had plenty of edits and Westernizataion changes. It's not to the same extreme Kid's WB did but they did still tone down all the shojo romance and a lot of the "kawaii" humor scenes. Most notably the Canadian broadcast changed it so Sonomi was just jealous of Fujitaka always beating her in competitions and all the drama about Sakura's mom was removed and that Sakura already knew who grandfather is and they still omitted all the more problematic relationships in the Canadian dub. Touya and Yukito's whole relationship is also still unfortunately written out of the dub. But the only dub of the original CCS that's truly close to uncut is the Animax Asia dub but even that version has some missing scenes and also the Bang Zoom dub of the Sealed Card which was an LA dub with an entirely different cast.
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